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Forum Support and discussion forum: Passive Aggressive Husband
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Posted by Kaz M on 05/05/06 12:07 AM
Extract from my Diary
It's only been relatively recently that I have come to terms that the previous doubts I had in mine and DH's marraige are genuine. We have picked ourselves up and brushed ourselves off so many times, and had so many other interferences it's been very easy to convince ourselves, and others, that we are an 'against the odds' success story. I have been actively promoting this to our friends and DH. Partly because I bought into it (again) and then at some point, because I believed that if I was able to communicate this belief to DH that we would become a self-fulfilling prophesy. I thought if he saw the faith and vision I seemed to believe in, then he would quit the very behaviours which were preventing this. I've been doing this on and off for so long, I'm not sure when I missed the point where I actually started growing apart from him in other areas besides.
When I consider how I've reinforced the belief our marriage is fantastic, not only to DH, but others around us, and how this makes me seem like I revel in messing with people's heads, it makes me cringe.
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I've been with him since I was 15, and we have worked so hard on his behaviour. I'm 34 now, and now the kids are older and I am finding my own feet, it has become increasingly obvious that he has simply changed behaviour I had confronted to more insidious ones. AKA, found other ways of manipulation which are more difficult for me to confront. I tried to end our marraige recently, but I no longer know what is real any more. He was able to turn the whole thing back on me, and added comments on how our teenage daughter would hate me, and how he couldn't live without me. I back-peddled, and now we are living a lie. He's happier avoiding the fact that I tried to end things, and is pretending nothing happened. I am allowing this because I'm scared of what he will throw at me if I push it...........and because after 18 years, I can't bear to see his pain. I want out, but don't have the strength to do it. I don't think I could if I did have the strength, I can't risk our children being dragged into the mess, and I have no doubt that he wouldn't hesitate to 'use' them. I won't spend more time trying to 'fix' him. I no longer have the emotional capacity to allow myself to put that kind of trust into our marraige, and evidence shows that he wont change anyway. I no longer wish to have a future with this man. The more independant I become, the more threatened and controlling he gets. It's become intolerable, yet it's so subtle, that he can make everything sound so reasonable from his point of view. I end up doubting my perceptions all the time. He has never hit me, although sometimes I wish he would. I'd have something to pin on him then, and would be able to justify my leaving.
Does anyone here empathise to being married to this behaviour? How it becomes so acceptable? I have so much written down, I didn't know here to start, so I just dived in at the present, and hopefully will be able to elaborate as the thread develops. I have limited access to the net, I work nights a few nights a week, which is the only time I can get online, so please bear with me.
Posted by K S on 05/14/06 07:34 AM
i have a mother who is controlling and manipulative. I know its not the same thing but people like that don't change. she's been in counseling for a couple years....i don't know why because she hasn't changed much except she thinks she's now too good to yell...sometimes she slips up. But what i'm trying to say...she's had a couple years of counseling and i've also had probably hundreds of conversations with her to tell her how i feel about her behavior. She either gets very defensive and tells me i'm the one with the problems and wants to get me help, and sometimes admits things just to make me happy(such as being a "bit" controlling). I listen to her answers because they sound so convincing and after the conversations i convince myself that she will change and that we will now have a good relationship. But after a while I realize it doesn't change and that people like my mom don't even know they are doing anything wrong. They will either be defensive or agree with you on little things to make you happy, but have no idea ever whatu'r talking about. This is just the cycle of things, so nothing is going to change unless u get out. It's a lot easier said than done especially with kids involved. I hope this helped at least a little.
Posted by Deb B on 05/20/06 12:16 PM
Kaz
Your only question is whether anyone here empathizes with how one could be married to this behavior, and how it eventually becomes so 'acceptable'.
I do. Been there. Done that. You are not alone. Someone cares about you. I do. I really do.
So much of your story resonates with me. Those of us who are empathetic tend to get caught up with someone who suffers from PA. We are drawn to each other like moths to a flame. One of us is pathologically dependent, while the other has an unquenching desire to fix, or help. So many of us are 'helpers'. I was. OK, I am. Still working on that co-dependency thing. Was married for 18 years too. I became so caught up in focusing on his behaviors and bought into the PA game that I forgot to take care of myself. So what will happen next, what will he feel, how will he react if I do this, or say that? It sounds to me like you may be doing the same thing. After years and years of jumping higher, and higher still, we become conditioned to put his needs ahead of ours and end up feeling that that is our 'job'. Or is it????? Is that really acceptable to us? What about our needs? What about our kids needs. The real needs, not the fake ones. The need for love. The need for trust. The need to believe in our truth, the need to trust our instincts, the need to feel strong and alive and aware....the need to either work hard on what's destroying us, with professional help, or else give up trying so that we can move on. The need to give up fighting a loosing battle. The need to stop living a lie. Our kids needs to live in an environment free of fighting and destruction. Their need for healthy discipline and a structured environment. Their need for at least one good, strong, healthy parent who will truly put their needs first, who will give to them when necessary, withhold when they can do for themselves, and the need for them to trust their instincts and their environment.
What I hear you saying is that you doubt your marriage and don't feel it's genuine. I hear you saying that you've had many arguments that you have tried to work through, but you really believe that it was a facade that your marriage was a good one and that you worked things out. You've left him, then came back. You have gotten to the point where you don't know what to believe anymore. You are afraid. I also hear that you had faith and vision in your relationship. You're afraid that he doesn't share your faith or your vision, or that he just can't and is maybe even not equipped to. You believe that when you work on one behavior of his it turns into a more insidious one, and that the whole thing ends up being turned back on you. You have now back-peddled and have gone back to him, and that you're scared of what may happen to him and your daughter. These things must be very scary and confusing to you. I imagine that you may also feel alone, betrayed, hurt, outraged, and angry. You may feel that your self esteem is at an all timem low. You don't want to hurt him. You may even be afraid of what he might do if he is alone. You may even think that you really don't want to believe that your investment of 18 years of your life has been for naught, or a failure, and that you really haven't helped him at all, as much as you've wanted to.
I hear that you are very much focusing on him. I encourage you to now focus on yourself and your daughter. I'm glad to hear you say that you are finding your own feet. Hang on to that! Please trust your instincts, because that is your inner self trying to break through to your own heart. Equip yourself with the tools that you need to make a good decision, for you, for your daughter, and for him. Buying into PA behavior doesn't help anyone. It only perpetuates the cycle. Please get the book "Living with the Passive Aggressive Man" by Scott Wetzler, PH.D. if you don't already have it. This book will help you understand the disorder so that you can make a wise decision about your own future.Visit the website www.passiveaggressive.homestead.com.
Try to understand the underlying thought behind passive aggressive behavior - "I will fail to preserve my own autonomy". Can you imagine? No matter what, this man is so dependent (on you) and hates it (and you sometimes) that he will, knowingly or unknowingly, fail and sabbotage your relationship. You can't fix him and it's not your job to fix him. That may be part of the problem. He's scared of being so dependent on you and that's why he does what he does. To remain independent and not under your control. So he will try to control you. Please don't let him. Don't fix him, just keep telling him how you feel Let him know how you feel when he does something that hurts you or makes you angry. He needs professional help to recover. You probably do too. Get it. You have freedom of choice. You really do. Your life can be fulfilling. We each have the responsibility - to ourselves -to make the most out of this life. That means facing the dragon and becoming aware of your behavior first. And his - if you want to protect yourself. Please protect yourself and your daughter. You can do it. You sound very strong to me. God knows - you've gotten this far! Can you give yourself credit that you've loved someone that others may find unloveable if they were married to him - for 18 years? Now, please love yourself, and your daughter. Please continue to acknowledge what you feel.
I could go on, but for now,just know that you are not alone. I don't know what's in store for you - only you can make that decision. I do know that you have choices and that writing on this website indicates to me that you desperately want to heal.
Thanks for opening the door. I hope you can tell that I am still healing, otherwise wouldn't have written such a discourse. I hope I don't get you in trouble for reading at work LOL.
Posted by Debra B on 09/01/06 11:50 AM
Hey - just wanted to say I'm just now coming to terms with this same kind of thing. I'll post another new post but here's the gist. I'm 36 - been married to the same man for 12 years and we've been together for 17 years. We have a 10 year old son and a 2 year old daughter.
My husband doesn't beat me, call me names or man-handle me in any way. I guess that's part of why I've been and still am in denial to some degree.
We've been through counseling once about 5 years ago when he was entangled in porn. There were obviously other issues but that's what pushed me to seek help. During the time we were in counseling, I feel like he manipulated the counseling (hindsight) to suit what he wanted. He has lots of sexual control issues and he used things from therapy to add to that control. I can't say he forces me to do things I don't want to do, but I can say I do those things to prevent consequences that I don't yet fully understand.
Recently things have escallated. He threatened suicide about a week and a half ago and went through a "break down' of sorts saying noone in any arena of his life respects him.
I go out with my best friend for coffee once a week and he's become incredibly jealous of that time. We have house church in our home once a week and he is very tense and snappy when we meet. He's said multiple things about not liking most of the people I am friends with.
The worst is the way he is with our 10 year old son. He is critical of everything he does - seems to look for reasons to get on him. There was an incident over how to get shredded cheese out of a bag not too long ago that ended in tears and me asking them to stop fighting. CHEESE! The most recent thing that I'm kicking myself for is we were out to eat and our son was being snotty about the waitress being slow. He needed correction for his attitude, but my husband started in on him in a very low tone through clenched teeth. I couldn't hear what was going on but something in me knew it was bad and I turned the other way. Sad but true. Afterward dh asked to speak to me and our son and he apologized for telling him he was acting like an a&&hole!!!!! That's when something clicked that my kids are learning to take the same stuff I do.
Oh - I might add we had our son in counseling nearly 2 years ago because he was anxious and showing motor tics and severe depression. At the time the counselor said she'd come to an end with him because he wouldn't talk past a certain point. Now I think I understand. I've been covering for my husband all these years while being afraid of the price of random choices (rules always changing). Now I see that our son couldn't talk because he feared further retribution.
I am just in the early stages of accepting that something is very wrong in our home so I have no advice ot offer but just know you're not alone.
Posted by linda d on 04/27/07 04:44 PM
Hello,
My first time using SAFE. Glad I found it. Just searched "
Passive Agressive Husband" on the net and SAFE came up. It is better than our marriage counselor. Only married two yrs. Have 1 1/2 yr old. Were older. I'm 42. Found out my "Nice Guy" husband is a master at manipulation and PA behavior. I have been physically neglected (no help w/ our baby or house), emotionally abandoned & made to look like the guilty one. He neglects me because he is incapable of a true relationship. I know this. I felt alone. He's manipulated our marriage counselor. I keep a diary. My son will know "who" his father is. I am strong, but felt alone until I found SAFE. Will keep in touch and only want to say thank you SAFE and Ladies, Never doubt your intuition. You are not crazy. You PA significant other is just too weak to grow into a healthy caring human being.
Posted by Kim U on 04/28/07 11:23 PM
When I saw this web site and these posts, I HAD to join so I could share my experience! After being "married" to my PA hubby for 25 years (well, 11 of those years we've spent separated), I'm now divorcing him after having had a BELLYFUL of his behavior!
The descriptions I've seen of the PA man suit him to a tee; in fact, I halfway expected a photo of him to pop up with the description of the PA personality disorder!
The procrastination, the sullenness, the years of unemployment because he couldn't get along with anyone at work, the controlling and manipulating (even manipulating the marriage counselor to side with him), well, the story goes on, and on, and on.
Since he's the respondent in our divorce process, he's being allowed certain concessions (carte blanche, if you ask me) and it's as though he had a "joy stick" in his hands, manipulating me this way and that. He's pulled off two "stalling" moves, so far in our divorce process.
Okay, I just had to reply, even if I had to join this outfit! (I've never heard of SAFE before tonight!)
Good luck to all of you. I'll keep you in my prayers!
kku11347
Hi Kaz
Your situation sounds EXACTLY like mine....I have been married 21 years, got married at 19, have three boys 21 18 and 15 and my husband uses the kids all the time...Tells me all the time that they hate me. I have actually moved out and living with young son and he is constantly hassling me all the time with one thing or another...At times I think it is easier just to be with him....Your right it does become acceptable, we are just like little lambs and accept it and we shouldnt. I too feel like I am still living a lie and I cant cope with this anymore.......It is a cycle that we have allowed and it is so hard to get out of it and like you he makes me feel so guilty and that it is all my fault.........I would love to talk with you more about this
Caz
Wow Deb this makes so much sense...........Thank you
Posted by ellen f on 06/08/07 02:36 PM
Hi again,
I've read through your entry and all the responses and my heart is so warmed to read other women experiencing what I have been for 14 years. Recently, God has led me out of our home (after years and years of "trying"). No threat of divorce, just self-preservation. I was getting so depressed. I see our issue so clearly. I have grown so much in our marriage- (a lot thanks to his PA behavior). He has not grown and needs to do his own work. and if I stay in the home he will wait and wait. The worst kind of lonely for my husband is being physically alone. that's been my main complaint. He doesn't love ME- he just doesn't want to be ALONE. I wonder if God directed me out so that leverage of being fully alone and left with the house and all its requirements and the loss of a social life (which I maintain) will move hime to do the solo work he needs to do. If he doesn't respond to the pain and do something I wonder what God will lead me to do next. I am apartment hunting. I so don't want a divorce...but in a very real way...my husband has not honored his vows to love me (if he doesn't love himself correctly how can he love me?). His PA is a form of abuse as real and cruel as a punch to the face. Honoring our vows is more than just "not getting a divorce." I think we need to be "warrior women" who can do the hard thing in a loving way and let them know we won't tolerate this twisted logic any longer and we are in our rights to call them out to be better men. Theres so much help available.. --Keep our eyes on a God who can love us and heal our injured spirits and renew us and love us as our souls crave.
I pray for all of us to experience healing and freedom at what ever conclusion that means in our particular situations. Like Dr. Phil says the only thing worse than being in a bad marriage for 10 years is to be in a bad marriage for 10 years and a day. --
You are loved!
There is so much to be said about the capacity of a passive aggressive husband to hoodwink his partner....here you are, stuck in a situation where your own truth is not included, which makes you feel like a stranger in a drama not of her choosing.
I encourage you to continue your own development, at the pace you can follow. It's your personal duty, and time will sort out the rest. Here is my posting with your words, hope it helps:
http://passiveaggressivehusband.com/independent-threatening-controlling/
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